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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 204 for the 16th of sep

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tember 2012 Richard Saunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia and

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announcement that little announcement

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before we start I've just been elected

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president of Australian skeptics now I

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have held the post before in fact ten

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years ago I was first elected to to be

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the president of Australian skeptics and

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I was present for about three years I

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think something like that and then other

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people had some time being president

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notably of course a Rancic ever just er

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done and so the committee in their

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wisdom have decided to make me president

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one more time it's very different ten

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years is a long time is a very different

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sort of outlook a very different sort of

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committee and scepticism has changed in

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the last ten years of course so that's

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great i hope i can do a good job as a

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president of the Australian skeptics but

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let's look now to what's coming up on

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the skeptic zone two of my favorite

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people in the world folks may not and

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Brian Dunning get together to have a

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chat this was recorded at tam Las Vegas

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Brian Dunning and may not as to people

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you want to be in a hot tub with its

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brian dunning and may not think about

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that one anyway a great chat with brian

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dunning is one of our favorite people of

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course there are many podcasts out there

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folks many skeptical podcast

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90-something someone was telling me the

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one I never miss the one I listened to

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every week without fail is skip toward

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of course skip toid that's coming up at

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the top of the show then after that it's

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the return of dr. Reggie reports dr.

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Richie dr. Reggie

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Dunlop is going to be killing us more

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more fan games with our wacky and crazy

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and zany Therapeutic Goods

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Administration mm-hmm what are they up

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to this week find out soon on dr. Rachel

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reports after that it's a message from

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Richard Dawkins about his award the

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Richard Dawkins award this year it's

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gone to one of my favorite people I've

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got a lot of favorite people when I come

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to think about it but really one of my

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favorite people Eugenie Scott from the

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National Center for Science Education

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congratulations Jeannie well deserved so

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you'll hear Richard Dawkins telling us

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about the awarding of that prize and

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then a little bit from Eugenie Scott

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where she discusses the National Center

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for Science Education and some of the

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tactics that creationists get up to and

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to wrap up the show maynard's back one

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more time to talk to an old friend of

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mine Gary Dalrymple who is one of the

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organizers of freak on here in city

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which is a free science fiction and

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fantasy convention that's coming up very

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soon more details at the end of the show

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lots of action happening in our solar

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system just lately folks I Voyager where

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the Voyager spacecraft has crossed some

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sort of boundary some sort of area and

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heading off into interstellar space and

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now reporter Maynard has reminded me

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that of course he spoke to Susan Dodd

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who is the project manager for Voyager

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and that was on episode 183 on the

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twenty first of April so it's worth

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three listening to if you have in mind

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to hear about this sort of space goings

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on of course we're all being am amazed

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by lovely gorgeous photographs coming

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back from the Curiosity rover at the

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moment now speaking briefly again as

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president of the Australian skeptics I

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hope you will join me sydneysiders for

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our dinner on the twenty-ninth of sep

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tember where we're going to be hearing

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from a Tory Shepherd punch columnist and

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chief reporter for news.com who gives a

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low-down on the media's embrace of the

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paranormal

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and the pseudo-scientific can't wait for

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that love the old skeptics dinners

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dinner talk so they're great evenings

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head to www.skype.com a you to book your

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ticket that's on the twenty-ninth of

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September and of course I hope you'll be

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joining me and James Randi and DJ Grothe

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and dr. Richie and rebecca watson and

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them and many many more people at the

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australian skeptics annual convention

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it's going to be in Melbourne at the end

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of november tickets are selling out fast

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don't miss this opportunity to meet lots

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of great people a chat with randy folks

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is is worth the price of admission alone

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believe me head to vic skeptics dot

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wordpress.com and find out more

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information about the australian

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skeptics National Convention and get

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your tickets soon folks get your tickets

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soon and now i'm going to ask for your

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help my dear listeners i'm going to ask

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for your help for some months now I've

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been slowly working on my new

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documentary the vaccination chronicles

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interviews with people and insights

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about the time before widespread

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vaccination what it was really like to

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see people suffering from these terrible

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diseases like polio and whooping cough

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measles things like this well I've

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really got into this documentary and

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having a very enjoyable time doing it as

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much as one can with a subject matter of

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course but I do need your help because

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in order to finish the documentary I

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have to upgrade my editing software

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because now I'm filming in HD now it's

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easy to film in HD of course anyone with

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an iphone can film in HD but it's doing

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all the processing the editing because I

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am and some of you may know I am also a

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professional video editor I've been

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doing it for many years but now I've hit

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a bump because I have to upgrade my

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software and here's a message for adobe

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i love using adobe premiere but it costs

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over twelve hundred dollars to download

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in Australia while I can buy

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it in a store in the United States for

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around six or seven hundred dollars

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hello so I've set up a thermometer on

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the skeptics own home page www skeptics

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on TV you might remember there used to

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be one therefore may nod for Maynard's

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trip to Vegas well that worked very

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modest the Marbella folks just six

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hundred dollars that's all I need that's

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that's the shortfall there is for this

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project is only six hundred dollars

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please feel free to chip in I'd be very

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grateful if you do and I can finish this

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video off in HD I think I've bombarded

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you with enough and use and information

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and goings on and everything else I'm

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going to run down stairs carefully

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always have to be careful on the steps

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I'm going to go up to the cupboard above

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the fridge to get that pancake mix oh

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yes pancake mix mix up my yourself some

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lovely fluffy pancakes some butter on

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the top and maple syrup how about that

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well I do that i hope you enjoying the

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here's my not spooky action at the

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now one of the main reasons anyone would

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ever come to America would be to meet

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Brian Dunning and that's the bell of

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discovery Brian Dunning welcomed me to

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America welcome to America it's obscene

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a lot of it on television I've lost seen

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you Americans in movies but you're all

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very different up close well we don't we

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don't have quite the same gun that John

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Wayne carried some of us carry different

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models and and not all of us can afford

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horses some of us have to ride cows now

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what area from the Orange County woody

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where you from you know I thought I saw

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you on the real wives of orange county

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as a cab driver sadly I am right in that

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area I'm at Orange County California

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about halfway between LA and and San

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Diego beautiful beach community whales

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dolphins all that Sun it was philly a

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liberal democrat area what kind of

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politics is it plays in that area oh

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it's it is it is very conservative oh

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really yeah we've got we've got like a

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couple little surf spots on the beach

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you got Laguna Beach and some pockets of

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artsy communities that are very liberal

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but by and large orange county is known

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for the it's one of the conservative

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spots of California so is there any

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skeptical issue that goes on in that

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area that you're aware of is it a big an

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evac Syria for example no I wouldn't say

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it's that but it's it's it's like much

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of California it's all the New Age whoa

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food woo is is very popular and buy food

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whew i mean people saying that certain

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super foods i love that expression a

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superfood yeah super foods organic food

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things that are miraculously healthy and

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then evil corporate foods processed

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foods that will immediately kill you and

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of course there's no evidence for either

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one of these but nevertheless it remains

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a very popular topic because you're the

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host and the producer abbr sceptile the

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weekly podcast and you've done all these

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episodes almost 300 you've only just got

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round to the Loch Ness monster what you

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been doing you mean you've been smoking

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something how come you didn't get do

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that on the first episode yeah a lot of

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people have asked me that yeah that I

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haven't done Bigfoot yet either I

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haven't done the JFK assassination

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there's a lot of standards I haven't

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gotten to simply because there are so

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many subjects out there a lot of them

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that people haven't heard of but that

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they still have just a really fun

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wonderful story behind them and

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that's one of the feedback I get most

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often is I'd never heard of this before

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and I thought it was going to be stupid

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but then I started listening and was

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fascinated now I've given you with the

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intersection with with the two of us

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when we met when you came to town

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Australia there's a couple of ideas I

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thrown your way there was the the Nazi

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UFO one which is a very interesting one

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and the Vril and and westall 66 you had

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a look at that in fact you're one of the

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few skeptical people that had a look at

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that and you raised the idea that it

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could have been an experimental drone at

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the time yeah what and actually I didn't

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raise the idea but i just found in one

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particular newspaper article that after

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it had come out someone had written in a

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letter to the editor and say hey i was

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stationed at Moorabbin airport is that

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isn't revenue ok apparently there have

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been some i'm not sure we call it the

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RAAF of the audible a reserve base or

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something and one of the things that

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they used to do there at the time in

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1966 was they would train pilots by

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having them chase a target drogue and

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the target drogue is just basically like

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a big giant wind sock that's towed

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behind another plane and other planes

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would chase that around and it turned

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out to be virtually a word for word

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description of what the science teacher

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who witnessed this said that he saw in

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the sky okay well that that's one

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possibility that's been raised that

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hasn't been mentioned as much as other

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possibilities yes certainly not know and

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it's everyone's gone with the math

270
00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:45,510
solution ation theory yeah I don't I

271
00:11:50,540 --> 00:11:47,550
don't buy the mass hallucination theory

272
00:11:52,430 --> 00:11:50,550
although typically what we always see in

273
00:11:53,780 --> 00:11:52,440
almost all well publicized cases is that

274
00:11:55,550 --> 00:11:53,790
a lot of people going to come out of the

275
00:11:57,230 --> 00:11:55,560
woodwork afterwards and it's the

276
00:11:59,150 --> 00:11:57,240
bandwagon effect everyone else saw

277
00:12:01,069 --> 00:11:59,160
something you tend to think you saw

278
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:01,079
something two or you even lie about it

279
00:12:03,860 --> 00:12:02,370
and say oh yeah I don't want to be the

280
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:03,870
only one who didn't see anything so yeah

281
00:12:07,730 --> 00:12:06,000
I saw something as well and what's the

282
00:12:09,470 --> 00:12:07,740
episode you've done that's really got

283
00:12:12,380 --> 00:12:09,480
the most flak and the most negative

284
00:12:13,790 --> 00:12:12,390
result from people it that always comes

285
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:13,800
to when you when you're looking at a

286
00:12:21,199 --> 00:12:15,569
particular science that has political

287
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,209
ramifications I I did one on DDT the the

288
00:12:26,210 --> 00:12:23,519
pesticide that is used a lot I mean that

289
00:12:27,949 --> 00:12:26,220
DDT created the Panama Canal for example

290
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:27,959
that's what kept the workers alive and

291
00:12:33,319 --> 00:12:30,959
it's used now in places like Africa and

292
00:12:35,169 --> 00:12:33,329
India where we still have

293
00:12:40,729 --> 00:12:35,179
very severe problems with malaria

294
00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:40,739
however a lot of people strongly dislike

295
00:12:45,530 --> 00:12:43,139
the use of DDT it does definitely have

296
00:12:48,499 --> 00:12:45,540
environmental impacts it has been shown

297
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:48,509
to be strongly correlated with eggshell

298
00:12:53,119 --> 00:12:50,160
thinning there's no doubt that it's a

299
00:12:55,249 --> 00:12:53,129
very imperfect insecticide and we have

300
00:12:57,439 --> 00:12:55,259
better insecticides now the thing with

301
00:13:00,889 --> 00:12:57,449
DDT is it's just incredibly inexpensive

302
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:00,899
and when children are dying you know

303
00:13:05,749 --> 00:13:03,569
sometimes you got to say well we have to

304
00:13:07,249 --> 00:13:05,759
decide between how many bird shell eggs

305
00:13:09,889 --> 00:13:07,259
do we want thinned and how many kids do

306
00:13:11,780 --> 00:13:09,899
we want to decide and my conclusion on

307
00:13:14,479 --> 00:13:11,790
that was that I felt the existing bands

308
00:13:17,359 --> 00:13:14,489
were just about appropriate and that

309
00:13:18,979 --> 00:13:17,369
drew a huge amount of Eire from largely

310
00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:18,989
from the people who oppose the use of

311
00:13:24,590 --> 00:13:22,649
DDT and when you make a mistake or even

312
00:13:26,780 --> 00:13:24,600
look like it made a mistake they aren't

313
00:13:30,309 --> 00:13:26,790
backward in coming forward are they the

314
00:13:33,289 --> 00:13:30,319
people with the emails i know it when i

315
00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:33,299
try to i'm going to make mistakes all

316
00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:34,980
the time and i try to correct them

317
00:13:38,809 --> 00:13:37,350
whenever i do i usually go back and

318
00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:38,819
correct the transcript on the website

319
00:13:42,799 --> 00:13:41,100
and every so often maybe every 3-4

320
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:42,809
months or so i will put out an episode

321
00:13:47,479 --> 00:13:44,970
that's exclusively dedicated to

322
00:13:49,549 --> 00:13:47,489
Corrections and arata and Boo Boo's and

323
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:49,559
blunders and so forth and I think I

324
00:13:53,179 --> 00:13:50,970
think people really enjoy those because

325
00:13:54,499 --> 00:13:53,189
they're just as interesting and what do

326
00:13:56,689 --> 00:13:54,509
you thought as being the mood here at

327
00:13:59,389 --> 00:13:56,699
ten this year 2012 is it had a special

328
00:14:01,100 --> 00:13:59,399
feel to it as my first one I have no

329
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:01,110
idea what has been the theme this year

330
00:14:04,879 --> 00:14:02,910
what has been the feeling you know

331
00:14:06,769 --> 00:14:04,889
there's so many first-time attendees

332
00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:06,779
here I've seen they have these first

333
00:14:10,249 --> 00:14:08,910
tammer badges for which I'm wearing

334
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:10,259
you're wearing one right now I've seen

335
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:11,850
more of those than I have at any at any

336
00:14:16,369 --> 00:14:14,399
previous event which is great and a lot

337
00:14:17,479 --> 00:14:16,379
of people are coming by my table I've

338
00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:17,489
got a table here where we're selling

339
00:14:22,549 --> 00:14:19,230
this cap tied books and DVDs and so

340
00:14:25,159 --> 00:14:22,559
forth and everyone is expressing pretty

341
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:25,169
much universally positive feedback i

342
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:26,730
think it's i think it's a it's a great

343
00:14:29,929 --> 00:14:28,079
show where we don't have some of the big

344
00:14:32,090 --> 00:14:29,939
headlining names this year Adam Savage

345
00:14:34,999 --> 00:14:32,100
and in we had a conflict with comic-con

346
00:14:37,460 --> 00:14:35,009
for example in his case so we've got a

347
00:14:39,289 --> 00:14:37,470
lot of new speakers and a lot of new

348
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:39,299
attendees it's it's really been kind of

349
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:41,850
like turning a fresh page and sort of a

350
00:14:45,710 --> 00:14:44,160
rebooting the conference anew now now

351
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:45,720
Bryan something that

352
00:14:49,129 --> 00:14:47,370
it's a bit puzzling to me because to me

353
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:49,139
america is the land of the middle man

354
00:14:52,670 --> 00:14:50,610
you can always sell your idea to someone

355
00:14:54,319 --> 00:14:52,680
who can sell you idea to someone your

356
00:14:56,210 --> 00:14:54,329
show to me seems like a something could

357
00:14:57,679 --> 00:14:56,220
be commercially saleable George Arab

358
00:14:59,600 --> 00:14:57,689
seems like someone who is commercially

359
00:15:01,699 --> 00:14:59,610
saleable SGU seems like something that

360
00:15:03,889 --> 00:15:01,709
is commercially saleable yet they're not

361
00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:03,899
on mainstream radio why can't these

362
00:15:09,139 --> 00:15:05,790
things be gotten on even in a small

363
00:15:12,170 --> 00:15:09,149
syndicated fashion in the US that's

364
00:15:15,379 --> 00:15:12,180
that's a great question I think the

365
00:15:16,879 --> 00:15:15,389
example that I use and I don't know if

366
00:15:18,740 --> 00:15:16,889
I'm you I may be using an example that's

367
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:18,750
known to Americans and not Australians

368
00:15:24,079 --> 00:15:20,250
but there's a TV show here called the

369
00:15:26,269 --> 00:15:24,089
view yeah and we have a copy of that in

370
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:26,279
strata called the circle okay so we've

371
00:15:29,660 --> 00:15:27,810
got five women sitting on the couch it's

372
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:29,670
like it's on daytime television one of

373
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:32,160
the women's channels and they argue

374
00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:35,250
about current events and stuff and if

375
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:37,470
you ask anyone named a subject that you

376
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:39,600
heard on the view nobody can think of

377
00:15:43,850 --> 00:15:42,000
one so what happens on the view it was

378
00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:43,860
it was mainly all arguments and

379
00:15:46,910 --> 00:15:45,060
fireworks between two of the

380
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:46,920
personalities one very conservative girl

381
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:48,810
and then Whoopi Goldberg Brett was in

382
00:15:52,009 --> 00:15:50,250
the very liberal perspective and they

383
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:52,019
would just hash it out and and it makes

384
00:15:57,019 --> 00:15:53,759
great entertainment because it's its

385
00:16:00,100 --> 00:15:57,029
conflict that is so different from what

386
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:00,110
what I'm doing on skep tide certainly

387
00:16:04,220 --> 00:16:02,490
skeptics guide of the universe has had

388
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:04,230
some some conflict especially when they

389
00:16:08,749 --> 00:16:06,750
had their previous hosts Perry who

390
00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:08,759
unfortunately is no longer with us but

391
00:16:11,929 --> 00:16:10,500
he used to get into some great arguments

392
00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:11,939
and it make great entertainment so I

393
00:16:17,079 --> 00:16:13,920
think it's just a matter of finding the

394
00:16:21,199 --> 00:16:17,089
right personalities and presenting this

395
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,209
fascinating information in in just a or

396
00:16:25,340 --> 00:16:23,279
commercial format do you think it's part

397
00:16:26,540 --> 00:16:25,350
of the the fact that these commercial

398
00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:26,550
entities haven't woken up to the fact

399
00:16:30,650 --> 00:16:28,680
that there is an audience for this even

400
00:16:32,090 --> 00:16:30,660
in a limited way and they've got to work

401
00:16:33,470 --> 00:16:32,100
harder to find it where if they get

402
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:33,480
given something it's a bit junkie they

403
00:16:37,879 --> 00:16:36,240
can just throw it on IIIi don't agree

404
00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:37,889
that that there is an audience out there

405
00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:40,529
that's not being addressed I think that

406
00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:43,350
all audiences respond to sensational

407
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:45,870
programming and the problem is that it's

408
00:16:51,049 --> 00:16:48,240
just really easy to make up crap and

409
00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:51,059
have sensational programming and there's

410
00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:54,120
no real financial upside to putting in

411
00:16:59,299 --> 00:16:57,480
the extra work to make non crap equally

412
00:16:59,850 --> 00:16:59,309
sensational it can be done don't get me

413
00:17:01,290 --> 00:16:59,860
wrong I'm can

414
00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:01,300
vincit it can be none i'm happy to step

415
00:17:06,299 --> 00:17:03,070
up and do it someone just needs to try

416
00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:06,309
to check you've made a couple of pilots

417
00:17:09,449 --> 00:17:07,660
in your time and you've put it forward

418
00:17:12,090 --> 00:17:09,459
and all that kind of thing and what's a

419
00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:12,100
feedback do you normally get to do they

420
00:17:15,329 --> 00:17:13,750
actually say or we think this is a bit

421
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,339
too arrow diet for the audience they

422
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:17,439
actually use those kind of words yes

423
00:17:21,630 --> 00:17:20,170
very much in fact we're they're not

424
00:17:24,299 --> 00:17:21,640
scared to tell you you're just being too

425
00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:24,309
smart mate no I mean they they want the

426
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:25,569
shows that they want and they're happy

427
00:17:30,299 --> 00:17:27,970
to tell you exactly what they want they

428
00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:30,309
told us that we've won pilot that we

429
00:17:34,590 --> 00:17:31,960
made call this kept ologist where we had

430
00:17:36,299 --> 00:17:34,600
a team of expert PhDs and everything we

431
00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:36,309
would go out to the scene and debunk the

432
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:39,070
pseudoscience and they told us straight

433
00:17:42,270 --> 00:17:40,480
out the first thing we would do is fire

434
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:42,280
your cast and hire a bunch of twenty

435
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:43,570
something year old people who chase

436
00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:46,690
ghosts and when we told them hey the

437
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:48,070
selling point is that these people know

438
00:17:51,180 --> 00:17:49,570
what they're talking about that's really

439
00:17:53,460 --> 00:17:51,190
good information they couldn't care less

440
00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:53,470
they want sensational information they

441
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:54,580
don't care whether the people know what

442
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:56,530
they're talking about or not so how do

443
00:17:59,850 --> 00:17:58,480
you select a topic for skip to it each

444
00:18:01,500 --> 00:17:59,860
week you said there's always so many to

445
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:01,510
choose from you're not going with

446
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:02,890
sensationalism you're going with

447
00:18:06,590 --> 00:18:04,809
topicality sometimes but how do you make

448
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:06,600
your selection it's just something

449
00:18:10,890 --> 00:18:08,710
people send them to me first of all so I

450
00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:10,900
always have a massive list of ideas to

451
00:18:16,140 --> 00:18:12,940
go through and it's just something that

452
00:18:18,510 --> 00:18:16,150
whatever whatever pics my might not my

453
00:18:24,110 --> 00:18:18,520
funny bone my skeptical bone but what

454
00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:24,120
just that what Oh me use language

455
00:18:28,110 --> 00:18:26,350
whatever gets me excited because it

456
00:18:30,299 --> 00:18:28,120
seems like an interesting topic to

457
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:30,309
research because I so many of them

458
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:31,360
fascinating the one that's what I'm

459
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:32,559
working on right now is there's a bridge

460
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,330
in Scotland where dogs have been

461
00:18:38,370 --> 00:18:36,160
committing suicide jumping off the

462
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:38,380
bridge now on the one hand there's not

463
00:18:40,980 --> 00:18:39,910
too much to say about that but on the

464
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:40,990
other hand as well there's gotta be

465
00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:42,970
something going on there how do we find

466
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:45,790
out what it is why do people believe

467
00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:47,679
that there's this legend does the legend

468
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:49,660
actually exist has this actually been

469
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:52,510
going on and if so what's the cause so

470
00:18:56,190 --> 00:18:54,370
there actually is a lot to talk about of

471
00:18:57,870 --> 00:18:56,200
all the phenomena of phenomena

472
00:19:00,210 --> 00:18:57,880
phenomenon you looked at over the years

473
00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:00,220
on skip tide which is always it's a

474
00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:02,049
great listen because I always as I leave

475
00:19:05,070 --> 00:19:03,790
work as I'm driving on the f3 from

476
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:05,080
Newcastle to Sydney that's how I usually

477
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:06,850
have a listen to it it's almost like my

478
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:08,410
working weeks over it's a good little

479
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:10,809
get into it then I get about 120 k and

480
00:19:13,090 --> 00:19:11,210
getting

481
00:19:15,340 --> 00:19:13,100
and there's no Brian's voice kind of a

482
00:19:16,539 --> 00:19:15,350
dangerous thing um what was like oh oh

483
00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:16,549
yeah well what has it been one thing

484
00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:18,590
you've looked at that you kinda wish was

485
00:19:22,180 --> 00:19:20,809
true of all the phenomena of all of all

486
00:19:23,919 --> 00:19:22,190
the ones you know and you know it could

487
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:23,929
be true you just could be wrong but what

488
00:19:28,180 --> 00:19:25,490
is one of the things you go well that'd

489
00:19:30,669 --> 00:19:28,190
be great if it was true anything

490
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:30,679
pertaining to what's essentially a human

491
00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:34,010
superpower anything like being the

492
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:35,919
ability to read minds remote viewing

493
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:38,480
being able to see things that with it

494
00:19:42,909 --> 00:19:41,210
with extrasensory perception even the

495
00:19:44,740 --> 00:19:42,919
stories you've heard where a car rolls

496
00:19:46,090 --> 00:19:44,750
over on top of someone and and the mom

497
00:19:48,460 --> 00:19:46,100
comes over and with superhuman strength

498
00:19:50,260 --> 00:19:48,470
lift up the car it turns out that

499
00:19:52,180 --> 00:19:50,270
there's a very limited amount of truth

500
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:52,190
certainly not as much truth as that

501
00:19:56,019 --> 00:19:54,080
commonly believed all of these

502
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:56,029
superpower type things we'd all love

503
00:19:59,380 --> 00:19:57,440
them to be true because we all wish we

504
00:20:01,149 --> 00:19:59,390
have superpowers and I think that's got

505
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:01,159
a lot of the reason to do with why these

506
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:03,200
beliefs are so are so popular with

507
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:05,510
people now you've been to Australia you

508
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:07,039
have good friend Richard Saunders and

509
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:08,960
major Dunlop well how do you see the

510
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:10,130
differences between the way the

511
00:20:14,380 --> 00:20:11,840
skepticism is approached in Australia

512
00:20:16,510 --> 00:20:14,390
and here in the US is a main difference

513
00:20:19,539 --> 00:20:16,520
you can spot the difference I can spot

514
00:20:22,779 --> 00:20:19,549
is that you guys have dr. Carl dr. Carl

515
00:20:25,060 --> 00:20:22,789
does so much for improving the public

516
00:20:26,649 --> 00:20:25,070
level of intelligence in Australia and

517
00:20:29,470 --> 00:20:26,659
the United States does not have the

518
00:20:31,419 --> 00:20:29,480
benefit of that I honestly give dr. Carl

519
00:20:35,409 --> 00:20:31,429
personally a lot of credit because I see

520
00:20:37,690 --> 00:20:35,419
a lot more per capita enthusiasm about

521
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:37,700
science and skeptical thinking in

522
00:20:40,899 --> 00:20:39,110
Australia than I see in the United

523
00:20:42,490 --> 00:20:40,909
States you think it's cuz no one he

524
00:20:44,409 --> 00:20:42,500
wants to give someone a platform like

525
00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:44,419
that a national platform like the ABC is

526
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:46,880
done with dr. Carl yeah i mean the u.s.

527
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:48,710
is the head of cheap entertainment and

528
00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:52,370
cheap entertainment means just chasing

529
00:20:58,269 --> 00:20:54,529
ghosts so look out dr. Cal you got dr.

530
00:21:00,250 --> 00:20:58,279
oz yes we you know we her for a long

531
00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:00,260
time we had on the radio dr. Dean Adele

532
00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:03,529
and he was America's doctor and a great

533
00:21:08,260 --> 00:21:06,289
guy great skeptical analysis big

534
00:21:10,180 --> 00:21:08,270
opponent of alternative medicine and

535
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:10,190
everything Dean Adele unfortunately

536
00:21:15,070 --> 00:21:13,010
retired and now America's doctor dr. oz

537
00:21:17,260 --> 00:21:15,080
and we have exactly the opposite a

538
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:17,270
wholesale promoter of quackery and

539
00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:19,730
nonsense and I asked Michael Sherman a

540
00:21:23,289 --> 00:21:21,529
few other people recently have you found

541
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:23,299
a great science website you've gone to

542
00:21:26,499 --> 00:21:25,070
recently obviously skipped or

543
00:21:27,789 --> 00:21:26,509
home is a place to go to get a lot of

544
00:21:29,169 --> 00:21:27,799
great information but is there a site

545
00:21:30,490 --> 00:21:29,179
you've been looking around the go wow

546
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:30,500
it's a good one that you'd like to pick

547
00:21:36,159 --> 00:21:33,769
them in to us I I go to these websites

548
00:21:38,019 --> 00:21:36,169
all the time because i have i have

549
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:38,029
interesting news stories that I put in

550
00:21:42,370 --> 00:21:40,370
my weekly email newsletter and I have a

551
00:21:43,539 --> 00:21:42,380
daily skep tied tweet that goes out on

552
00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:43,549
Twitter so I've got to come up with a

553
00:21:48,249 --> 00:21:45,529
lot of neat stuff and one of my

554
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:48,259
favorites is New Scientist com I go

555
00:21:53,049 --> 00:21:49,610
there because they have a lot of good

556
00:21:56,289 --> 00:21:53,059
reporting on latest and greatest and of

557
00:21:59,259 --> 00:21:56,299
course scientificamerican.com popular

558
00:22:00,730 --> 00:21:59,269
site pops ID com saya mo what a

559
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:00,740
scientific american i think it's i am

560
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:03,200
calm and just so the people that have

561
00:22:06,850 --> 00:22:05,450
put in money to get me out here over

562
00:22:07,899 --> 00:22:06,860
this weekend could you just let them

563
00:22:09,970 --> 00:22:07,909
know that i have actually been working

564
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:09,980
hard and have not been drinking with you

565
00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:11,840
at the bar every night well i will say

566
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:12,740
this is the first time I've actually

567
00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:14,529
seen you at the conference this week

568
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:17,809
that's not true of course no man is a

569
00:22:20,889 --> 00:22:19,129
great guy he's made a ton of friends

570
00:22:22,659 --> 00:22:20,899
here and and he's really quite one of

571
00:22:24,399 --> 00:22:22,669
the personalities of the conference but

572
00:22:25,749 --> 00:22:24,409
Brian great meeting you once again and I

573
00:22:28,450 --> 00:22:25,759
think it's your turn to come down under

574
00:22:30,460 --> 00:22:28,460
this time and I do mean the country I am

575
00:22:44,289 --> 00:22:30,470
there I am so there is no place I'd

576
00:22:50,150 --> 00:22:47,570
hi this is Tim Farley you probably know

577
00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:50,160
me from what's the harm net a catalog of

578
00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:52,950
the real world harm caused by lack of

579
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:55,260
critical thinking but that's not my only

580
00:23:01,340 --> 00:22:58,410
project i present at skeptic events I

581
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:01,350
post a daily skeptic history fact on

582
00:23:06,049 --> 00:23:03,570
Twitter and Facebook and I blog about

583
00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:06,059
using new techniques on the internet to

584
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:09,240
advance skepticism come over to skep

585
00:23:15,799 --> 00:23:12,720
tools com and check out my latest ideas

586
00:23:22,940 --> 00:23:15,809
but first enjoy the rest of the skeptic

587
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:22,950
zone now it's time for dr. Richie

588
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:30,279
hello listeners and welcome to dr.

589
00:23:35,020 --> 00:23:32,809
Richie reports this week I present to

590
00:23:36,970 --> 00:23:35,030
you another update on the regulation of

591
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:36,980
alternative medicine and complementary

592
00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:39,590
medicine in Australia and the news at

593
00:23:44,350 --> 00:23:41,480
first seems good although the devil is

594
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:44,360
in the detail so imagine if you were

595
00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:46,490
given a homework assignment one taking

596
00:23:50,650 --> 00:23:48,110
weeks to complete and potentially

597
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:50,660
costing you a fair amount of money the

598
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:52,690
project is also complex and convoluted

599
00:23:57,340 --> 00:23:55,010
meaning you'll probably need to get some

600
00:23:59,470 --> 00:23:57,350
help from other people but there's a

601
00:24:01,690 --> 00:23:59,480
catch even though the project is

602
00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:01,700
compulsory and you must take a box to

603
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:04,070
say you've completed it you don't need

604
00:24:07,899 --> 00:24:06,530
to hand it in in addition the chance

605
00:24:11,470 --> 00:24:07,909
that your teacher will check that you've

606
00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:11,480
done it is about twenty percent so with

607
00:24:16,090 --> 00:24:14,270
all this in mind would you do it this

608
00:24:17,980 --> 00:24:16,100
would have been the situation facing

609
00:24:19,779 --> 00:24:17,990
manufacturers of complementary and

610
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:19,789
alternative medicine wanting to get

611
00:24:23,710 --> 00:24:21,049
their drugs included on the official

612
00:24:26,529 --> 00:24:23,720
government list of drugs if the proposed

613
00:24:28,570 --> 00:24:26,539
changes were introduced under the

614
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:28,580
current system to get cams such as

615
00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:30,530
supplements and ear candles stamped with

616
00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:32,390
an official-looking number called an

617
00:24:37,570 --> 00:24:35,929
austell you apply online select from a

618
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,580
list of pre-approved ingredients

619
00:24:41,470 --> 00:24:39,440
indicate that you have evidence that

620
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:41,480
your product is useful and sit back and

621
00:24:45,909 --> 00:24:43,610
wait for notification that you're on the

622
00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:45,919
list but what appears to be part of a

623
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:47,929
larger crackdown on alternative medicine

624
00:24:52,029 --> 00:24:50,000
or rather was part of a larger crackdown

625
00:24:54,610 --> 00:24:52,039
on alternative medicine and i'll get to

626
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:54,620
that further in a moment the Australian

627
00:25:00,250 --> 00:24:56,450
Government is proposing to significantly

628
00:25:02,409 --> 00:25:00,260
tighten up what constitutes evidence now

629
00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:02,419
listeners might recall recent moves by

630
00:25:06,399 --> 00:25:04,400
the government in Australia to remove 30

631
00:25:09,370 --> 00:25:06,409
million dollars in subsidies for cam

632
00:25:11,169 --> 00:25:09,380
from our public health system so this

633
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:11,179
could potentially affect rebates for

634
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:13,520
homeopathy aromatherapy ear candling

635
00:25:17,620 --> 00:25:15,289
crystal therapy flower essences

636
00:25:20,020 --> 00:25:17,630
iridology kinesiology and that tropi

637
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:20,030
the-- professor Ken Harvey who was an

638
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:21,710
outspoken advocate for evidence-based

639
00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:24,650
medicine welcome this move saying if

640
00:25:28,419 --> 00:25:26,390
there is no good evidence that they are

641
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:28,429
better than a placebo then cam should

642
00:25:33,850 --> 00:25:30,799
not be funded by the taxpayer and of

643
00:25:35,710 --> 00:25:33,860
course I agree with this in addition

644
00:25:38,350 --> 00:25:35,720
following the findings by the UK

645
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:38,360
government in 2010 that homeopathy was

646
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:40,720
no more effective than placebo

647
00:25:44,820 --> 00:25:42,400
a draft statement from the Australian

648
00:25:47,010 --> 00:25:44,830
Government was leaked to stating that it

649
00:25:48,750 --> 00:25:47,020
was quote unethical for health

650
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:48,760
practitioners to treat patients using

651
00:25:53,220 --> 00:25:50,770
homeopathy for the reason that

652
00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:53,230
homeopathy has not been shown to be

653
00:25:58,140 --> 00:25:56,049
efficacious now curiously homeopathy

654
00:25:59,580 --> 00:25:58,150
does not qualify for regulation by the

655
00:26:02,010 --> 00:25:59,590
Australian Government because in most

656
00:26:06,659 --> 00:26:02,020
cases the potions are considered to

657
00:26:08,850 --> 00:26:06,669
dilute to pose any risk to consumers so

658
00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:08,860
the proposed changes to the regulation

659
00:26:14,370 --> 00:26:11,830
of cam have the cam industry crying that

660
00:26:17,399 --> 00:26:14,380
the end is nigh and why would this be

661
00:26:19,289 --> 00:26:17,409
well because if this proposal that

662
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:19,299
evidence must now come in the form of an

663
00:26:23,580 --> 00:26:21,730
expert report it would consist of a

664
00:26:25,260 --> 00:26:23,590
comprehensive analysis of all the

665
00:26:27,810 --> 00:26:25,270
scientific evidence for the product

666
00:26:30,210 --> 00:26:27,820
proposed going back at least 10 years

667
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:30,220
and sourced from at least two different

668
00:26:35,850 --> 00:26:33,370
scientific databases the government has

669
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:35,860
also indicated that not just any old

670
00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:39,510
studies would do citing meta analyses as

671
00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:42,070
able to produce the evidence that most

672
00:26:44,970 --> 00:26:43,630
closely reflects the health benefits

673
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:44,980
associated with a particular

674
00:26:50,220 --> 00:26:48,250
intervention and additionally and

675
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:50,230
importantly the studies presented as

676
00:26:55,409 --> 00:26:52,150
evidence must specifically support the

677
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:55,419
claims of the product so the proposed

678
00:26:59,820 --> 00:26:57,250
document says that if the product claims

679
00:27:01,919 --> 00:26:59,830
to be effective at weight loss studies

680
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:01,929
that described body reshaping or improve

681
00:27:07,950 --> 00:27:04,090
muscle mass are not acceptable as

682
00:27:09,539 --> 00:27:07,960
evidence so as you can imagine this task

683
00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:09,549
of putting together such an expert

684
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:11,260
report is gargantuan and time-consuming

685
00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:14,289
and testament to this in the proposals

686
00:27:17,399 --> 00:27:15,700
put up by the government they

687
00:27:19,230 --> 00:27:17,409
recommended that applicants seek the

688
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:19,240
assistance of a librarian to help in

689
00:27:25,649 --> 00:27:22,330
collating the expert report and that's

690
00:27:28,649 --> 00:27:25,659
not all the draft report even defines

691
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:28,659
what constitutes an expert they must

692
00:27:32,460 --> 00:27:30,090
have either a specialist medical

693
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:32,470
qualification or a tertiary degree of at

694
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:34,390
least three years duration in a health

695
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:36,730
profession they must also have completed

696
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:39,210
either a course in critical appraisal or

697
00:27:44,370 --> 00:27:41,370
biostatistics from a tertiary

698
00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:44,380
institution or hold a PhD in a

699
00:27:48,990 --> 00:27:46,360
scientific or health-related discipline

700
00:27:51,810 --> 00:27:49,000
now that's a lot of letters after one's

701
00:27:54,540 --> 00:27:51,820
name and people with that many

702
00:27:56,910 --> 00:27:54,550
qualifications generally don't give that

703
00:27:59,160 --> 00:27:56,920
I'm for free at least not as much time

704
00:28:02,040 --> 00:27:59,170
as such a detailed report would require

705
00:28:03,450 --> 00:28:02,050
but here's the rub listeners if you're

706
00:28:05,130 --> 00:28:03,460
thinking what a great initiative from

707
00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:05,140
the government and what a significant

708
00:28:08,910 --> 00:28:07,030
step forward in the regulation of cam in

709
00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:08,920
Australia that may I remind you about

710
00:28:13,170 --> 00:28:10,990
the opening phrase of them report I

711
00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:13,180
described one of the major flaws in this

712
00:28:17,250 --> 00:28:15,340
otherwise genius legislation and that is

713
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:17,260
that the expert report would not be

714
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:18,910
required to be submitted with the

715
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:23,290
application for a product so applicants

716
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:24,850
would have to state that they had it

717
00:28:27,930 --> 00:28:26,050
that they'd done it that they'd

718
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:27,940
completed it but they did not need to

719
00:28:33,150 --> 00:28:30,510
produce it unless they were audited and

720
00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:33,160
the chances of them being audited is

721
00:28:37,170 --> 00:28:35,560
only around twenty percent now since I

722
00:28:38,670 --> 00:28:37,180
wrote the report on this proposed

723
00:28:41,250 --> 00:28:38,680
legislation there have been even more

724
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:41,260
recent updates and that update is that

725
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:43,810
because the cam industry was so incensed

726
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:46,240
by the possibility of having to present

727
00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:48,130
evidence of efficacy for their products

728
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:50,230
they jumped up and down and the

729
00:28:54,540 --> 00:28:52,510
government decided to cancel this idea

730
00:28:56,730 --> 00:28:54,550
so what looks to be a really great step

731
00:28:59,160 --> 00:28:56,740
forward in tightening up the regulation

732
00:29:02,670 --> 00:28:59,170
of cam in Australia has come to nothing

733
00:29:06,590 --> 00:29:02,680
and until next time this has been dr.

734
00:29:12,180 --> 00:29:09,420
dr. Rachel Dunlop is one of Australia's

735
00:29:13,580 --> 00:29:12,190
foremost media commentators in matters

736
00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:13,590
concerning so-called alternative

737
00:29:19,950 --> 00:29:16,150
medicine she has appeared on national

738
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:19,960
radio and national television dr. H E is

739
00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:22,240
available for interviews and you can

740
00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:26,200
contact her at Rachel at skeptic zone

741
00:29:45,589 --> 00:29:44,089
hi I'm on it oh yeah Chris 10 Aviva tips

742
00:29:47,899 --> 00:29:45,599
that I so emotional eater of a skeptic

743
00:29:50,089 --> 00:29:47,909
zone I'm skeptical in la liga the VINs

744
00:29:51,949 --> 00:29:50,099
not reblog gear or pivot f a podcast of

745
00:29:54,619 --> 00:29:51,959
reading and skip sistemas leaks in this

746
00:29:55,849 --> 00:29:54,629
drama central to our skip cystal demo or

747
00:29:58,099 --> 00:29:55,859
higher publicize the deeps con

748
00:29:59,779 --> 00:29:58,109
articulate and calendar / activity or

749
00:30:01,579 --> 00:29:59,789
link eternity research it skips this

750
00:30:03,199 --> 00:30:01,589
blog in up to 30m late autodesk ateres

751
00:30:18,729 --> 00:30:03,209
hefty performance so stick Kingdom or

752
00:30:23,899 --> 00:30:21,079
Eugenie Scott is one of my very favorite

753
00:30:28,099 --> 00:30:23,909
people although we have our civilized

754
00:30:30,379 --> 00:30:28,109
disagreements as I hotel in the battle

755
00:30:33,349 --> 00:30:30,389
for rationality in America especially in

756
00:30:35,299 --> 00:30:33,359
American education my own subject of

757
00:30:38,359 --> 00:30:35,309
evolutionary biology is in the front

758
00:30:40,219 --> 00:30:38,369
blind trench and dr. Scott is the

759
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:40,229
commanding officer the master strategist

760
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:42,570
on our side the general in charge of

761
00:30:47,149 --> 00:30:44,940
intelligence and strategic planning as

762
00:30:50,509 --> 00:30:47,159
well as the field officer in charge of

763
00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:50,519
tactics and battle order yet she does it

764
00:30:56,089 --> 00:30:53,129
all with the most unmilitary grace and

765
00:30:57,529 --> 00:30:56,099
charm it's impossible to meet Jeanne

766
00:31:01,009 --> 00:30:57,539
without loving her whether you agree

767
00:31:02,569 --> 00:31:01,019
with her or not not surprisingly her

768
00:31:05,449 --> 00:31:02,579
distinction has been recognized with

769
00:31:11,180 --> 00:31:05,459
numerous honorary degrees and and other

770
00:31:13,579 --> 00:31:11,190
honest too many to list of course no one

771
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:13,589
person could achieve so much on her own

772
00:31:17,539 --> 00:31:15,450
the mother of Jeannie's great strengths

773
00:31:20,299 --> 00:31:17,549
is that she's a team player as well as a

774
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:20,309
leader she's built up the National

775
00:31:25,609 --> 00:31:23,609
Center for Science Education NCSE so

776
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:25,619
that it's now a formidable combination

777
00:31:32,419 --> 00:31:29,519
of think tank and commando unit of shock

778
00:31:34,579 --> 00:31:32,429
troops I was made to feel very welcome

779
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:34,589
and I visited them in their offices in

780
00:31:38,719 --> 00:31:36,329
California a couple of years ago and

781
00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:38,729
were privileged to sit in as a guest in

782
00:31:42,949 --> 00:31:41,700
one of the weekly brainstorming meetings

783
00:31:46,509 --> 00:31:42,959
chaired with humor and good fellowship

784
00:31:49,309 --> 00:31:46,519
by Jeanne there's a delightful air of

785
00:31:52,580 --> 00:31:49,319
informal competence you get the feeling

786
00:31:54,350 --> 00:31:52,590
they're not a wash with money unlike the

787
00:31:57,740 --> 00:31:54,360
ludicrously ill named Discovery

788
00:31:59,600 --> 00:31:57,750
Institute but the NCSE is very much a

789
00:32:03,140 --> 00:31:59,610
wash with ability intelligence

790
00:32:05,299 --> 00:32:03,150
initiative loyalty of drive and the

791
00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:05,309
inspiration for that kind of excellence

792
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:07,830
comes from the top from Eugenie Scott

793
00:32:13,820 --> 00:32:11,760
herself I said we have our civilized

794
00:32:16,730 --> 00:32:13,830
disagreements and she wouldn't wish me

795
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:16,740
to duck the issue I think she's soft on

796
00:32:21,470 --> 00:32:19,440
religion she is of course not religious

797
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:21,480
herself though she'll hate me for saying

798
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:23,010
it she's too intelligent and

799
00:32:28,399 --> 00:32:25,770
well-informed to be religious but she

800
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:28,409
respects religion in a way that i do not

801
00:32:34,190 --> 00:32:32,010
i can imagine good tactical reasons for

802
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:34,200
pretending to respect religion the same

803
00:32:37,490 --> 00:32:35,490
reason that i like to think lead

804
00:32:41,510 --> 00:32:37,500
president obama to profess Christianity

805
00:32:44,990 --> 00:32:41,520
the same reasons that lead 534 out of

806
00:32:47,630 --> 00:32:45,000
535 members of Congress to claim to be

807
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:47,640
religious a statistical implausibility

808
00:32:54,529 --> 00:32:52,559
if not impossible t but to pretend to

809
00:32:57,260 --> 00:32:54,539
respect religion is different from

810
00:33:01,760 --> 00:32:57,270
really respecting religion which is the

811
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:01,770
one place i cannot go with dr. Scott we

812
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,320
are today celebrating a great science

813
00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:06,960
educator a gallon fighter for the cause

814
00:33:12,049 --> 00:33:09,830
of science and reason a brilliant woman

815
00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:12,059
universally admired role model of the

816
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:13,980
height of her very considerable powers

817
00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:17,370
jeanne is a true scholar deeply read not

818
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:19,260
just in the scientific literature but

819
00:33:24,919 --> 00:33:21,120
also in the bizarre counterculture

820
00:33:27,649 --> 00:33:24,929
anti-culture of creationism when she

821
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:27,659
reads Duane Gish or William demski ken

822
00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:30,960
ham or Michael Behe Philip Johnson or

823
00:33:35,419 --> 00:33:33,390
even Ray Comfort the banana man she

824
00:33:38,299 --> 00:33:35,429
doesn't as I might simply hurl a book at

825
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:38,309
the wall she reads it studies the

826
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:40,289
methods of these people learns their

827
00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:42,690
tricks cross-references they're ignorant

828
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:44,760
mountebank re perhaps them in

829
00:33:49,490 --> 00:33:47,570
inconsistency unmask their double-talk

830
00:33:52,580 --> 00:33:49,500
exposes their deceits and their

831
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:52,590
pretensions it doesn't bonus she's

832
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:55,049
recently opened a second front against

833
00:33:59,570 --> 00:33:57,450
climate change deniers and without

834
00:34:01,610 --> 00:33:59,580
neglecting the earlier campaign has

835
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:01,620
rallied her forces to start all over

836
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:06,330
again Eugenie Scott

837
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:08,639
is a powerful friend to our rationalist

838
00:34:14,270 --> 00:34:11,040
movement inspiring people to take action

839
00:34:15,889 --> 00:34:14,280
to become involved if there's one honor

840
00:34:18,169 --> 00:34:15,899
greater than all others that we could

841
00:34:22,070 --> 00:34:18,179
bestow on her it would be to support her

842
00:34:24,820 --> 00:34:22,080
work but financially and in action we

843
00:34:27,619 --> 00:34:24,830
need more people to defend science and

844
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:27,629
hardworking and dedicated as Jeanne and

845
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:29,760
her colleagues are they cannot do it

846
00:34:36,260 --> 00:34:33,599
alone so I now make a personal appeal to

847
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:36,270
all of you to visit the NCSE website and

848
00:34:42,889 --> 00:34:40,020
see what you can do to help I feel

849
00:34:52,210 --> 00:34:42,899
deeply honored that Eugenie Scott has

850
00:34:56,750 --> 00:34:55,339
I'm Eugenie Scott I'm the executive

851
00:34:59,690 --> 00:34:56,760
director of the National Center for

852
00:35:01,370 --> 00:34:59,700
Science Education we are in Oakland

853
00:35:02,839 --> 00:35:01,380
California where a membership

854
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:02,849
organization most of our members are

855
00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:05,010
scientists teachers people concerned

856
00:35:10,210 --> 00:35:07,910
about church and state separation we

857
00:35:13,070 --> 00:35:10,220
monitor the creationism and evolution

858
00:35:15,380 --> 00:35:13,080
controversy and we try to help teachers

859
00:35:18,589 --> 00:35:15,390
and school boards and legislators and

860
00:35:22,730 --> 00:35:18,599
citizens to cope with pressures against

861
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:22,740
the teaching of evolution so in the 25

862
00:35:26,750 --> 00:35:24,450
years or so that we've been doing this

863
00:35:29,620 --> 00:35:26,760
we have found that there are three

864
00:35:32,750 --> 00:35:29,630
arguments that pretty much any

865
00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:32,760
creationist contention can be put into

866
00:35:38,030 --> 00:35:36,660
if it's a video or a letter to the

867
00:35:40,940 --> 00:35:38,040
editor our comment on a talk show

868
00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:40,950
whatever it'll pretty much fall into one

869
00:35:45,050 --> 00:35:42,660
of these three categories we call them

870
00:35:46,609 --> 00:35:45,060
the pillars of creationism I'd like to

871
00:35:49,790 --> 00:35:46,619
tell you a little bit about the pillars

872
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:49,800
and why they're important to recognize

873
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:53,730
because you as a scientist or a citizen

874
00:35:58,339 --> 00:35:55,650
who enjoy science who is interested in

875
00:36:01,130 --> 00:35:58,349
science I hope is concerned about what's

876
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:01,140
going on in American public schools and

877
00:36:07,099 --> 00:36:03,510
the science classes there because at

878
00:36:10,370 --> 00:36:07,109
ncsc we hear a lot about pressures from

879
00:36:12,349 --> 00:36:10,380
school boards upon curriculum we hear

880
00:36:14,780 --> 00:36:12,359
pressures upon individual teachers from

881
00:36:16,670 --> 00:36:14,790
parents we hear about pressures from

882
00:36:19,130 --> 00:36:16,680
school boards or state legislators that

883
00:36:20,090 --> 00:36:19,140
trickle down to the classroom teacher as

884
00:36:21,860 --> 00:36:20,100
well

885
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:21,870
and in all of these cases there's

886
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:23,970
there's been this continuing story for

887
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:26,610
over 30 years of people who don't want

888
00:36:31,550 --> 00:36:29,280
kids to learn evolution and even though

889
00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:31,560
the there have been various ins and outs

890
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:33,180
of the creation and evolution

891
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:36,000
controversy and the creationists have

892
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:39,090
always lost in court this is in the

893
00:36:43,550 --> 00:36:41,490
evolving targets because creationism

894
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:43,560
morphs shall we say in response to the

895
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:44,850
legal environment there's a natural

896
00:36:49,850 --> 00:36:47,520
selection going on here and we have

897
00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:49,860
different forms of creationism and the

898
00:36:54,650 --> 00:36:52,470
current form of creationism that we're

899
00:36:58,070 --> 00:36:54,660
coping with it we're monitoring at NCSE

900
00:37:01,090 --> 00:36:58,080
today is perhaps the most difficult to

901
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:01,100
fight because it doesn't appear to be

902
00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:03,660
the kind of thing you can challenge

903
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:06,300
directly in court at any rate I'll get

904
00:37:10,430 --> 00:37:08,370
to that in a moment so let me tell you

905
00:37:12,580 --> 00:37:10,440
about the pillars of creationism because

906
00:37:15,340 --> 00:37:12,590
as a concerned citizen as a scientist I

907
00:37:18,380 --> 00:37:15,350
hope you'd be able to recognize them and

908
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:18,390
understand the refutations of the

909
00:37:22,430 --> 00:37:20,040
pillars so that you can hopefully

910
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:22,440
contribute to your own community or

911
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:24,450
state and help to improve science

912
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:29,370
education the first pillar is the pillar

913
00:37:34,940 --> 00:37:31,560
which challenges the science of

914
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:34,950
evolution the claim is often made that

915
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:36,990
evolution is a theory in crisis that

916
00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:39,450
scientists are giving up on evolution

917
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:40,950
that more and more scientists are

918
00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:43,370
rejecting evolution as a failed theory

919
00:37:47,330 --> 00:37:45,300
that will come as a surprise to

920
00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:47,340
scientists but this is the claim that is

921
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:49,350
made and it's made very very loudly on

922
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:52,170
talk radio's on blogs and letters to the

923
00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:54,480
editor and so forth the second pillar of

924
00:38:00,100 --> 00:37:57,030
creationism is an ideological pillar

925
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:00,110
it's the religious ideology that

926
00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:02,490
evolution is incompatible with my

927
00:38:06,620 --> 00:38:04,110
religious who's there for evolution

928
00:38:09,650 --> 00:38:06,630
cannot be true and this takes various

929
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:09,660
forms the strongest form is if an

930
00:38:14,810 --> 00:38:11,690
individual is a biblical literalist or a

931
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:14,820
qur'anic literalist this this point of

932
00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:17,040
view is present and conservative

933
00:38:21,380 --> 00:38:18,990
christians conservative Muslims and

934
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:21,390
conservative choose the Middle Eastern

935
00:38:27,590 --> 00:38:23,610
monotheism's if you will the argument is

936
00:38:30,020 --> 00:38:27,600
made that my holy books when I look at

937
00:38:32,330 --> 00:38:30,030
them I see special creation God created

938
00:38:33,980 --> 00:38:32,340
everything specially in its present form

939
00:38:36,980 --> 00:38:33,990
over a short period

940
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:36,990
I'm 6,000 years ago therefore evolution

941
00:38:40,910 --> 00:38:39,570
cannot be true and indeed evolution is

942
00:38:44,090 --> 00:38:40,920
incompatible with that particular

943
00:38:46,010 --> 00:38:44,100
religious view some people reject

944
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:46,020
evolution because of a human

945
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:48,240
exceptionalism perspective that that

946
00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:50,490
human beings are so superior to all

947
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:52,740
other organisms God must have created

948
00:38:58,340 --> 00:38:55,200
especially there's a lot of ways that

949
00:39:00,530 --> 00:38:58,350
that religion is used to oppose the

950
00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:00,540
teaching of evolution the third pillar

951
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:03,240
is the fairness pillar the call it's a

952
00:39:10,430 --> 00:39:07,170
cultural concept really it's a pillar

953
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:10,440
where the anti evolutionists are tapping

954
00:39:17,870 --> 00:39:14,010
into some Theory deeply-held american

955
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:17,880
cultural positions fairness balance free

956
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,810
speech letting everybody speak you know

957
00:39:25,370 --> 00:39:23,760
town hall meetings all that sort of

958
00:39:27,050 --> 00:39:25,380
thing and and these are really great

959
00:39:30,109 --> 00:39:27,060
cultural values there's nothing wrong

960
00:39:32,570 --> 00:39:30,119
with them it's just that they are

961
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,580
misapplied shall we say when it comes to

962
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:34,320
how we decide what a kid's you learn in

963
00:39:40,910 --> 00:39:37,950
school now how can you as a concerned

964
00:39:43,250 --> 00:39:40,920
citizen deal with these three pillars as

965
00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:43,260
I say whatever argument you hear you can

966
00:39:47,540 --> 00:39:45,030
probably fit it into one of these three

967
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:47,550
so if I can just give you the generic

968
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:49,609
refutations then you can go from there

969
00:39:56,030 --> 00:39:53,490
there's plenty of evidence for the

970
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:56,040
particular on various websites on NCS

971
00:40:02,060 --> 00:40:00,240
these websites and others the evolution

972
00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:02,070
is weak science pillar let's take a look

973
00:40:06,349 --> 00:40:04,140
at that first well the best way to

974
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:06,359
refute that is to help your audience

975
00:40:11,180 --> 00:40:08,130
help the person you're talking to

976
00:40:14,660 --> 00:40:11,190
understand that in fact the consensus in

977
00:40:16,430 --> 00:40:14,670
the scientific community supporting the

978
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:16,440
idea that evolution has happened the

979
00:40:21,590 --> 00:40:19,410
universe is old etc is enormously strong

980
00:40:23,570 --> 00:40:21,600
there have been many surveys of

981
00:40:26,750 --> 00:40:23,580
scientists there's been a lot of survey

982
00:40:29,930 --> 00:40:26,760
research of scientists showing upwards

983
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:29,940
of the high ninety percent of scientists

984
00:40:34,849 --> 00:40:32,850
accept the idea of evolution it's hard

985
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:34,859
to get scientists to agree on whether

986
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:36,480
it's raining outside but there's this

987
00:40:42,170 --> 00:40:39,090
really really strong acceptance

988
00:40:44,359 --> 00:40:42,180
consensus view that evolution is valid

989
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:44,369
science but the public doesn't know this

990
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:47,010
in the few surveys that have been done

991
00:40:49,970 --> 00:40:47,730
where the

992
00:40:51,470 --> 00:40:49,980
members of the public have been asked do

993
00:40:53,780 --> 00:40:51,480
you think scientists agree that

994
00:40:56,530 --> 00:40:53,790
evolution has happened the difference

995
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,540
between what the public thinks

996
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:58,560
scientists believe in what scientists

997
00:41:02,990 --> 00:41:00,000
actually believe is like twenty thirty

998
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:03,000
percent it's really a big disconnect so

999
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:05,130
help the public understand that

1000
00:41:12,380 --> 00:41:08,160
evolution is valid science the second

1001
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:12,390
pillar the religion pillar is best dealt

1002
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:15,330
with by helping people understand that

1003
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:17,609
there's a very wide diversity of opinion

1004
00:41:22,910 --> 00:41:20,250
within the Christian community I often

1005
00:41:24,590 --> 00:41:22,920
joke that I think more evolution is

1006
00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:24,600
taught in Catholic parochial schools

1007
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:26,910
than in public schools because the

1008
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:29,040
catholic church accepts something called

1009
00:41:33,650 --> 00:41:31,530
theistic evolution which is of course

1010
00:41:35,660 --> 00:41:33,660
evolution happened but it was the gut

1011
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:35,670
way that God chose to bring about the

1012
00:41:39,620 --> 00:41:37,770
world according to his plan there's

1013
00:41:41,690 --> 00:41:39,630
varieties of theistic evolution out

1014
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:41,700
there but it's basically an idea it's a

1015
00:41:45,830 --> 00:41:44,010
Christian theological idea that is fully

1016
00:41:48,650 --> 00:41:45,840
compatible with what science shows us

1017
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:48,660
about living things evolving through

1018
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:51,530
time Catholics mainstream protestants

1019
00:41:58,580 --> 00:41:56,010
official theology is in fact theistic

1020
00:42:01,130 --> 00:41:58,590
evolution so it is not the case that if

1021
00:42:02,990 --> 00:42:01,140
you are a Christian you have to reject

1022
00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:03,000
evolution some Christian views

1023
00:42:07,609 --> 00:42:05,310
absolutely but not all Christian views

1024
00:42:10,130 --> 00:42:07,619
most people think there's a dichotomy on

1025
00:42:12,590 --> 00:42:10,140
one side is atheist evolution on the

1026
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:12,600
other side is Christian creationism but

1027
00:42:16,370 --> 00:42:14,010
that's false that's just empirically

1028
00:42:21,950 --> 00:42:16,380
wrong it's not a dichotomy it's a

1029
00:42:25,220 --> 00:42:21,960
continuum the third pillar the fairness

1030
00:42:27,650 --> 00:42:25,230
pillar is the most difficult one to deal

1031
00:42:29,930 --> 00:42:27,660
with because it is so strongly rooted in

1032
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:29,940
American cultural traditions the

1033
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:32,010
fairness pillar is best dealt with by

1034
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:35,250
helping the public think about this a

1035
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:38,490
little bit more more carefully obviously

1036
00:42:41,930 --> 00:42:40,410
we want debate in our society about a

1037
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:41,940
lot of things people should be free to

1038
00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:44,250
express opinions people should be free

1039
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:47,910
to argue vehemently about one position

1040
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:50,250
or another one opinion or another that's

1041
00:42:53,690 --> 00:42:51,930
not really what we're talking about what

1042
00:42:56,359 --> 00:42:53,700
we're really talking about is a much

1043
00:42:58,700 --> 00:42:56,369
more narrow issue we're really talking

1044
00:43:00,740 --> 00:42:58,710
about what do you teach in high school

1045
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:00,750
science class because that is where

1046
00:43:03,730 --> 00:43:01,490
these

1047
00:43:05,350 --> 00:43:03,740
policies that come to school boards or

1048
00:43:08,410 --> 00:43:05,360
the pressure that comes upon teachers

1049
00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:08,420
really come to what you should teach in

1050
00:43:13,060 --> 00:43:10,310
high school science class is no surprise

1051
00:43:16,090 --> 00:43:13,070
science and a high school science

1052
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:16,100
teacher has the very important job of

1053
00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:18,410
picking from the huge array of subject

1054
00:43:23,740 --> 00:43:20,990
matter in say biology or physics or

1055
00:43:26,830 --> 00:43:23,750
chemistry or whatever that smaller range

1056
00:43:28,420 --> 00:43:26,840
of topics that is essential for young

1057
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:28,430
learners who are just building an

1058
00:43:34,660 --> 00:43:30,050
understanding of that particular

1059
00:43:38,290 --> 00:43:34,670
scientific field in biology that one of

1060
00:43:40,420 --> 00:43:38,300
those core principles is evolution that

1061
00:43:43,780 --> 00:43:40,430
living things are related genetically in

1062
00:43:47,230 --> 00:43:43,790
this this huge genealogical tree of

1063
00:43:50,170 --> 00:43:47,240
living creatures through time so help

1064
00:43:53,050 --> 00:43:50,180
the public understand that we're not

1065
00:43:54,730 --> 00:43:53,060
talking about inhibiting anybody's free

1066
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:54,740
speech we're not talking about science

1067
00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:56,930
being dogmatic and and forcing views

1068
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:58,970
upon students we're talking about doing

1069
00:44:03,460 --> 00:44:01,280
the same thing in high school biology

1070
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:03,470
class as we do in physics or chemistry

1071
00:44:09,609 --> 00:44:06,050
or for that matter mathematics and

1072
00:44:11,349 --> 00:44:09,619
English literature and geography we

1073
00:44:14,380 --> 00:44:11,359
teach the consensus view of the field

1074
00:44:16,359 --> 00:44:14,390
now if the creationists or the

1075
00:44:19,170 --> 00:44:16,369
intelligent design people or anybody

1076
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:19,180
else who challenges evolution wants to

1077
00:44:23,170 --> 00:44:21,680
make the argument that they have a valid

1078
00:44:24,849 --> 00:44:23,180
science that deserves to be taught in

1079
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:24,859
the public school classroom knock

1080
00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:27,530
yourself out but your job is to convince

1081
00:44:33,460 --> 00:44:30,710
the scientific community first what is

1082
00:44:36,180 --> 00:44:33,470
happening is that because of the

1083
00:44:38,980 --> 00:44:36,190
politicized nature of American education

1084
00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:38,990
curriculum decisions are made by elected

1085
00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:41,030
officials and elected officials are

1086
00:44:45,310 --> 00:44:42,710
looking over their shoulder two votes as

1087
00:44:47,730 --> 00:44:45,320
opposed to necessarily paying attention

1088
00:44:50,349 --> 00:44:47,740
to what's you know the best curriculum

1089
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:50,359
because American education is

1090
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:53,330
politicized there are pressures upon

1091
00:44:58,960 --> 00:44:56,210
teachers outside of science to change

1092
00:45:01,090 --> 00:44:58,970
the curriculum one way or the other they

1093
00:45:06,190 --> 00:45:01,100
should be protected from that students

1094
00:45:08,770 --> 00:45:06,200
should not be the the platform upon

1095
00:45:10,450 --> 00:45:08,780
which we fight the culture wars let the

1096
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:10,460
creationists or the intelligent design

1097
00:45:13,810 --> 00:45:11,930
people or the anti-evolution is

1098
00:45:14,820 --> 00:45:13,820
demonstrate to the scientific community

1099
00:45:17,310 --> 00:45:14,830
that they have

1100
00:45:18,660 --> 00:45:17,320
valid views that evolution is either a

1101
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:18,670
week science or that they've got a

1102
00:45:23,340 --> 00:45:20,530
better alternative and it'll trickle

1103
00:45:25,980 --> 00:45:23,350
down to the high school if it makes it

1104
00:45:29,610 --> 00:45:25,990
into the consensus they argue fairness

1105
00:45:33,450 --> 00:45:29,620
frankly to teach students that something

1106
00:45:36,090 --> 00:45:33,460
is not valid when there's such a strong

1107
00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:36,100
scientific consensus about it is the

1108
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:38,710
most unfair thing you can do I would

1109
00:45:43,230 --> 00:45:40,990
hope that being familiar with the

1110
00:45:46,650 --> 00:45:43,240
refutation zuv the three pillars would

1111
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:46,660
give you more confidence in standing up

1112
00:45:51,390 --> 00:45:48,370
for good science in your community if

1113
00:45:53,370 --> 00:45:51,400
you hear of a school board issue or some

1114
00:45:55,290 --> 00:45:53,380
state legislation or school board

1115
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:55,300
legislation or if you even hear word

1116
00:45:59,820 --> 00:45:57,280
that one of your local teachers is

1117
00:46:01,650 --> 00:45:59,830
reluctant to teach evolution because she

1118
00:46:04,020 --> 00:46:01,660
or he feels that there is pressure from

1119
00:46:05,970 --> 00:46:04,030
the community I hope that you will stand

1120
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:05,980
up for good science and the first thing

1121
00:46:11,580 --> 00:46:09,310
you can do is contact us at NCS ecomme

1122
00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:11,590
we can put you in touch with people in

1123
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:13,990
your community who feel likewise we can

1124
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:16,570
give you the ammunition so we say the

1125
00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:18,370
arguments that you can use on the

1126
00:46:23,940 --> 00:46:21,790
methods that you can use to make a good

1127
00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:23,950
argument to your local decision makers

1128
00:46:30,930 --> 00:46:27,070
because teachers need help we're we get

1129
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:30,940
calls every week from teachers who want

1130
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,010
some advice who want some support to

1131
00:46:37,860 --> 00:46:35,680
teach good science and they deserve all

1132
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:37,870
the support that we as scientists and

1133
00:46:56,780 --> 00:46:52,640
hi this is brian dunning from the

1134
00:46:59,810 --> 00:46:56,790
sceptile podcast ATS kept ID com for 15

1135
00:47:02,570 --> 00:46:59,820
years now dr. Bob's trivia quiz has been

1136
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:02,580
a part of Australian skeptics each month

1137
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:05,040
the mysterious dr. Bob comes up with

1138
00:47:11,090 --> 00:47:07,920
questions that defy all logic and reason

1139
00:47:13,310 --> 00:47:11,100
only the best of the best dare attempt

1140
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:13,320
to answer these brain twisters and no

1141
00:47:22,090 --> 00:47:16,530
google won't help you visit dr. Bob's

1142
00:47:25,490 --> 00:47:22,100
quiz wordpress.com that's dr be OBS quiz

1143
00:47:28,460 --> 00:47:25,500
wordpress.com to take part and to see

1144
00:47:31,490 --> 00:47:28,470
the complete archive of dr. bob's trivia

1145
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:31,500
quiz i'm brian dunning from skep tide

1146
00:47:50,180 --> 00:47:47,930
where's the TARDIS we're coming to you

1147
00:47:51,950 --> 00:47:50,190
live from the secret carpeted corridor

1148
00:47:54,290 --> 00:47:51,960
just near skeptics in the pub and we

1149
00:47:55,490 --> 00:47:54,300
with Garrett here ad today Gary how good

1150
00:47:58,130 --> 00:47:55,500
to see along here it's get is the pub

1151
00:48:00,440 --> 00:47:58,140
again yes and I'm excited to be taking

1152
00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:00,450
part in this corridor conversation you

1153
00:48:04,070 --> 00:48:02,430
see them going on you hear them on the

1154
00:48:06,290 --> 00:48:04,080
podcast now you're actually part of it

1155
00:48:08,540 --> 00:48:06,300
well it's like joining a secret Club

1156
00:48:09,530 --> 00:48:08,550
though we got a handshake or something

1157
00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:09,540
like the world there will be a special

1158
00:48:12,530 --> 00:48:11,070
one later I guess you'll feel like your

1159
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:12,540
life is over once this interview is done

1160
00:48:15,710 --> 00:48:14,310
because it's all been done really well

1161
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:15,720
that's only if you believe in a single

1162
00:48:18,620 --> 00:48:17,130
life if you believe your past and future

1163
00:48:19,940 --> 00:48:18,630
lives and obviously you've got a much

1164
00:48:21,620 --> 00:48:19,950
broader perspective on this sort of

1165
00:48:23,630 --> 00:48:21,630
thing which has got nothing to do

1166
00:48:24,770 --> 00:48:23,640
whatsoever to do with free cons that it

1167
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:24,780
could because we're here to talk about

1168
00:48:29,630 --> 00:48:28,170
freecom which is on at the UTS and I've

1169
00:48:31,220 --> 00:48:29,640
been to the skeptic camp there a couple

1170
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:31,230
of times and there's a much broader

1171
00:48:34,460 --> 00:48:32,880
thing involving a whole lot of other

1172
00:48:36,110 --> 00:48:34,470
things trying to explain it in a capsule

1173
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:36,120
to the Sydney listen it and get along

1174
00:48:39,470 --> 00:48:38,130
there i'm glad that i mentioned the sort

1175
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:39,480
of multiple lives because there are

1176
00:48:43,970 --> 00:48:41,730
certainly a lot of life happening at a

1177
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:43,980
freak on effectively what it is it's a

1178
00:48:49,250 --> 00:48:46,680
gathering of people various tribes of

1179
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:49,260
science fiction fans and people who like

1180
00:48:54,020 --> 00:48:51,690
science fiction sci fi people who like

1181
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:54,030
to write it people who like to read it

1182
00:48:58,730 --> 00:48:56,490
and people would just like to watch did

1183
00:49:00,110 --> 00:48:58,740
you find that the the true blood people

1184
00:49:02,780 --> 00:49:00,120
don't really get on with the buffy the

1185
00:49:05,210 --> 00:49:02,790
vampire slayer' people well generally

1186
00:49:08,060 --> 00:49:05,220
it's not an issue because most free cons

1187
00:49:11,150 --> 00:49:08,070
actually take place in daylight on the

1188
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:11,160
weekend at an inexpensive location that

1189
00:49:14,660 --> 00:49:12,720
you can get to and did i mention that

1190
00:49:15,770 --> 00:49:14,670
it's actually a free event yeah and how

1191
00:49:17,390 --> 00:49:15,780
many people do you expect to get along

1192
00:49:19,940 --> 00:49:17,400
and I believe you've got two rooms going

1193
00:49:24,220 --> 00:49:19,950
we have two rooms going the a room and

1194
00:49:29,210 --> 00:49:24,230
the be room and what I'm presenting is a

1195
00:49:31,580 --> 00:49:29,220
program of about 18 hours of discussions

1196
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:31,590
of all sorts of science fictional issues

1197
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:34,410
and what do you think is that the hook

1198
00:49:36,860 --> 00:49:36,000
to get people along that haven't been to

1199
00:49:38,690 --> 00:49:36,870
this kind of thing because they're

1200
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:38,700
thinking oh they're having trouble

1201
00:49:42,980 --> 00:49:40,890
imagining what it is well the great

1202
00:49:46,490 --> 00:49:42,990
thing about it is if you can imagine a

1203
00:49:48,770 --> 00:49:46,500
university common room conversation it's

1204
00:49:50,810 --> 00:49:48,780
sort of at that level you'll meet people

1205
00:49:52,410 --> 00:49:50,820
there who are into science fiction and

1206
00:49:55,050 --> 00:49:52,420
you'll discover they're also in a lot of

1207
00:49:57,690 --> 00:49:55,060
other things so if you're only are just

1208
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:57,700
sort of i read it or i watch it but i'm

1209
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:00,640
not really a sci-fi fan I don't wear the

1210
00:50:04,530 --> 00:50:02,890
costume I don't wear the point it is

1211
00:50:07,020 --> 00:50:04,540
although some people do nothing wrong

1212
00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:07,030
with that you'll probably find their

1213
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:09,190
people who will be on your wavelength

1214
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:13,540
more so than the people at work or your

1215
00:50:19,530 --> 00:50:16,450
immediate family who you've just ignored

1216
00:50:21,090 --> 00:50:19,540
it means that either sci-fi not good and

1217
00:50:22,650 --> 00:50:21,100
also you can make it as little or as

1218
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:22,660
much as you want you can come along and

1219
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:24,400
just dip your toe in the whole thing or

1220
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:27,490
whatever and like skeptics like even

1221
00:50:31,530 --> 00:50:29,410
conspiracy theory people to a certain

1222
00:50:34,140 --> 00:50:31,540
extent anomalous science fiction fans

1223
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:34,150
they don't tend to be as judgmental as

1224
00:50:40,020 --> 00:50:38,710
you would think well that's true one of

1225
00:50:42,110 --> 00:50:40,030
the other things that I've found about

1226
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:42,120
science fiction fans is that they are

1227
00:50:47,010 --> 00:50:45,040
generally not just well read in science

1228
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:47,020
fiction but they're usually quite well

1229
00:50:52,110 --> 00:50:49,170
read in a couple of other fields as well

1230
00:50:54,090 --> 00:50:52,120
often they'll use the word catharsis in

1231
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:54,100
a sentence and know what it means unlike

1232
00:50:59,100 --> 00:50:56,650
me will I meet people that can have a

1233
00:51:01,890 --> 00:50:59,110
Frank and open discussion about the

1234
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:01,900
morality of Captain Scarlet the mr. ons

1235
00:51:05,940 --> 00:51:03,970
I mean basically we did destroy their

1236
00:51:07,410 --> 00:51:05,950
city on Mars and they're angry with us

1237
00:51:09,690 --> 00:51:07,420
so we don't have the moral high ground

1238
00:51:12,780 --> 00:51:09,700
it is quite possible that you would be

1239
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:12,790
able to find people like that but I find

1240
00:51:17,820 --> 00:51:15,520
that the real killer app of a freak on

1241
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:17,830
as being a free entry event is it

1242
00:51:21,780 --> 00:51:19,210
instead of having to decide in advance

1243
00:51:23,370 --> 00:51:21,790
at hey I want to go to this thing it's

1244
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:23,380
going to cost me so much I'm going to

1245
00:51:26,970 --> 00:51:24,880
have to spend a day there I'm going to

1246
00:51:28,980 --> 00:51:26,980
have to make it more while you can go to

1247
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:28,990
a freak on and if you like the first

1248
00:51:34,610 --> 00:51:32,290
hour of it great you can stay just for

1249
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:34,620
that session if you like although

1250
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:37,450
usually you'll find that it's

1251
00:51:40,860 --> 00:51:39,040
interesting enough to compel you to

1252
00:51:42,750 --> 00:51:40,870
stick around for another session and

1253
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:42,760
another session and another session well

1254
00:51:46,980 --> 00:51:44,650
where can we go online to find out more

1255
00:51:50,460 --> 00:51:46,990
about it and when is it on you can

1256
00:51:53,180 --> 00:51:50,470
contact me by email and the clever

1257
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:53,190
little email for that is seeded free

1258
00:52:00,810 --> 00:51:57,130
con-com @ gmail.com I'll just repeat

1259
00:52:02,779 --> 00:52:00,820
that for you again seed sy d freak on

1260
00:52:05,809 --> 00:52:02,789
calm

1261
00:52:07,609 --> 00:52:05,819
gmail com and would there be anyone

1262
00:52:10,219 --> 00:52:07,619
that's a real fan of the work of a

1263
00:52:14,269 --> 00:52:10,229
William Shatner specifically in flying

1264
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:14,279
high too well remember this is a science

1265
00:52:19,729 --> 00:52:16,529
fiction convention there is a carpentry

1266
00:52:21,890 --> 00:52:19,739
convention later on in town at the

1267
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:21,900
showground if you're interested in

1268
00:52:26,509 --> 00:52:24,089
wooden acting I think that's a very good

1269
00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:26,519
place for you to hang out look good luck

1270
00:52:30,949 --> 00:52:28,079
with it and we may see you there and of

1271
00:52:52,620 --> 00:52:30,959
course may the force be with you live

1272
00:52:57,730 --> 00:52:55,720
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1273
00:52:59,470 --> 00:52:57,740
zone all those pancakes were good

1274
00:53:02,200 --> 00:52:59,480
haven't had pancakes for a while it's

1275
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:02,210
hard to beat that maple syrup tell you

1276
00:53:05,770 --> 00:53:03,770
what when I went to a las vegas last

1277
00:53:07,450 --> 00:53:05,780
time for the amazing meeting i ordered a

1278
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,460
big stack of pancakes I think I had

1279
00:53:14,860 --> 00:53:10,400
enough for three people two dogs and six

1280
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:14,870
cats love pancakes I shall keep you

1281
00:53:20,170 --> 00:53:16,400
updated on my progress about the

1282
00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:20,180
vaccination chronicles documentary I'm

1283
00:53:25,630 --> 00:53:21,590
filming at the moment there is a short

1284
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:25,640
clip at wwc eggs on TV from stuff I shot

1285
00:53:30,070 --> 00:53:28,310
of a month or two ago shot much more

1286
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:30,080
since then and gives you an idea what

1287
00:53:35,140 --> 00:53:32,810
I'm trying to achieve thank you if you

1288
00:53:36,940 --> 00:53:35,150
care to chip in and help me with that

1289
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:36,950
that project I think it's quite

1290
00:53:42,070 --> 00:53:39,890
worthwhile coming up on next week's show

1291
00:53:44,650 --> 00:53:42,080
we're going to hear from Benjamin

1292
00:53:46,980 --> 00:53:44,660
Radford that's well worth waiting for

1293
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:46,990
Benjamin red but a really top line

1294
00:53:51,850 --> 00:53:50,240
paranormal investigator and just before

1295
00:53:53,290 --> 00:53:51,860
I go and sort of harks back to this

1296
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:53,300
episode of the skeptic zone talking

1297
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:54,770
about the evolution and creationism and

1298
00:53:58,750 --> 00:53:56,690
all that sort of stuff now I stumbled

1299
00:54:03,510 --> 00:53:58,760
upon a really good youtube channel

1300
00:54:06,490 --> 00:54:03,520
youtube.com slash evolution documentary

1301
00:54:08,020 --> 00:54:06,500
and something like 200 documentaries on

1302
00:54:12,460 --> 00:54:08,030
there about natural selection and

1303
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:12,470
evolution and biology and anatomy that

1304
00:54:18,700 --> 00:54:15,890
sort of stuff wow it's it's the smallest

1305
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:18,710
but it's it's incredible I recommend you

1306
00:54:23,590 --> 00:54:20,810
visit the evolution documentary and

1307
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:23,600
peruse those documentaries I'm sure that

1308
00:54:28,330 --> 00:54:26,240
will keep you occupied for the week to

1309
00:54:31,090 --> 00:54:28,340
come and until next week's show this is

1310
00:54:34,940 --> 00:54:31,100
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1311
00:54:42,050 --> 00:54:37,040
you've been listening to the skeptic

1312
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:42,060
zone visit her website at www skeptics